overrated, underrated, and what they really mean
Categories: anime, commentary, higurashi, melancholy of haruhi suzumiya
Tagged: haruhi suzumiya, higurashi
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One thing that really bugs me about the web (and blogging) is how people call this or that overrated without any basis or some misconstrued basis. “Overrated” means too much praise and adoration for too low of an output. Seems simple enough. If Steve Nash were really a two time MVP, he’d be carrying his team to the finals.
Two time MVP is a shitload of praise and adoration… I think wikipedia’s article on Nash sums it up best:
Nash is only the second point guard, along with Magic Johnson, to win the MVP award multiple times. Nash joined eight other NBA players with back-to-back MVP awards: Magic Johnson, Bill Russell, Wilt Chamberlain, Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, Moses Malone, Larry Bird, Michael Jordan and Tim Duncan. Of this group, Nash is the only player who has not won an NBA title.
Two time MVPs bring home trophies. ‘Nuff said. To me, MVP means that they earned it… displayed night in, night out why they’re the best baller. At no point did I think, “Steve Nash will lead an Amare-less Suns to an Obrien Trophy.” With that in mind, back in my Thin Slicing Spring 2006 post, I called NANA the Steve Nash. Why? They both get too much praise and adoration for not enough output, and there’s no way NANA is going to become the best series of spring 2006.
Let’s clear up this overrated nonsense now. It’s one thing to be crappy anime. It’s another to be great anime. It’s yet another to be overrated. To be overrated, there must be a level of expectation going in, and, it doesn’t delivier. I’m not talking about “people say it’s good after watching it, but I don’t like it.” That’s different. That’s normal differences in taste… some people like cowering Mikuru, some like bunny girl Mikuru, others like meido Mikuru, and yet some prefer Itsuki. Overrated? That’s hype before a show even airs, and then it doesn’t delivier. Overrated is if a manga’s awesome, everyone looks forward to the anime, and it stinks up the join. I think the hype stops when we’re, uh, 9 episodes into a 14 episode series. It may be crap anime, but it’s not overrated anime. Let’s compare what I think to be an overrated series and what I think is an underrated series of spring 2006.
Overrated: NANA. Not even the third best shoujo series this season (both Ouran and Planet of the Beast King are superior, yes, any series where the male lead spends 15 minutes explaining why he can’t have kids with the female lead is shoujo, I will now impale myself with a fork), yet gets fawned on by the community. I’m surprised there’s more backlash for Haruhi Suzumiya than NANA. Haruhi gets a lot of attention, but it also gets a high anidb rating (over 9) as well as good download numbers (over 3x more than the average NANA episode). Thing is, both NANA and Haruhi have a deep library of source material, just one set of source material is more popular than the other.
Underrated: Haruhi Suzumiya. Raise your hand if you knew who Haruhi Suzumiya was on March 1, 2006. Thought so. Guess what? Going from nothing to prom queen means underrated. It’s like She’s All That only Freddie Prince Jr isn’t involved (and if he suddenly guest stars, I will impale my right temple with a butcher’s knife… I’m not kidding this time). Let’s run this down, since everyone has archives, let’s see what people said about Haruhi before the first episode aired versus NANA:
Omni’s Spring 2006 Preview: Doesn’t preview Haruhi. Ouch. Omni talks about everything, so this is a double ouch. (Though, he does blog about the series, so I forgive him.) Only one person even mentions Haruhi Suzumiya in his comments, even though he has a small uprising of people who call Omni out for not talking about Demonbane. Wow. For NANA, “I’m most looking forward to the music that will come out of this series.” (Silly note: doesn’t preview Killer Lolis.)
Jeff’s Spring 2006 Preview: Doesn’t preview Haruhi. Ouch. He does make fun of the Haruhi fanboys fawning a few weeks later saying how overrated Haruhi has gotten. I mean, wow, how can something be overrated if it didn’t even receive a rating? For NANA, “Cream of the Crop.” (Silly note: doesn’t preview Killer Lolis.)
Suguru’s Spring 2006 Preview: Wow, someone actually previewed Haruhi, but admits, “everything I know about this series I got from a thread on AnimeSuki, and even that’s not very much.” Reason Suguru is looking forward to it, “I can’t wait to see something with visuals that don’t look like they were drawn by a five-year old.” Not exactly a ringing endorsement. It’s like looking forward to School Rumble for Imadori. Doesn’t preview NANA. Ouch. (Silly note: doesn’t preview Killer Lolis.)
Anga’s Spring 2006 Preview: Doesn’t preview either Haruhi or NANA. Though Anga doesn’t like much but .hack//roots. Um, that’s like saying James Jones is the real Phoenix Suns MVP. (Silly note: doesn’t preview Killer Lolis. See a pattern?)
Matt’s Spring 2006 Preview: Writes about Haruhi, “Haven’t read the novels so I don’t really have much of a clue of what it’s about. But if anything it should be nice to look at with Kyoto Animation handling things.” No mention of NANA. Ouchie. (Silly note: for Killer Lolis, “Originally interested because Tomomi Mochizuki … was going to handle Series Composition, but for some reason that’s not the case anymore.”)
BluWacky’s Spring 2006 Preview: Ranks Haruhi as “vaguely curious.” Calls NANA “I am about to watch the live action movie to see whether the property is worth my while, but with the massive amounts of hype around it I have faith it’s going to be interest. It certainly SOUNDS like my kind of shoujo.” Massive hype and zero for Haruhi. So far, I’ve seen a lot of hype for NANA, yet no one seems to know much about Haruhi, with only Suguru and Matt pointing out that Kyoto Animation is working on it. Wow. (Silly note: wonders if Killer Lolis would be “as slow as the Type Moon stuff has turned out to be?” Empathic, NO!)
So, summing it up, there were much larger expections for NANA than Haruhi going into the season.
Back to the March 1, 2006 thing, after a very extensive five minutes of research using The 好ã, Google, and my June 2006 copy of Megami Magazine, only Shingo posted anything about the SOS Brigade prior to that date. Out of all the bloggers listed in this post, none had an iota of idea of Haruhi Suzumiya, and none openly said that they would blog about it. I think it’s very organic if someone, myself included, watches an episode, thought it was awesome enough that we’d want to toss up 1,000 (or in Garten’s case, 3,500) words about it. Haruhi’s popularity was from this grass roots type of deal. NANA, on the other hand, had a rep from the live action as well as the original manga. People were looking forward to it and looking forward to blogging about it… justifed in quality? Well, that’s hard to say. it’s an uphill battle trying to convince me NANA is superior in animation quality, seiyuu work, OP/ED, creativity, Mike Tyson impersonations, enjoyment, and costume raping than Haruhi.
I blogged about Belldandy because I enjoy the series originally, yet I blog about Killer Lolis because I saw the series and said, “Wow, I’m hooked!” I think there’s a fundamental difference between overrated and just not good. Just because someone doesn’t like something four other people like, it’s not overrated. It just means different taste. My cousins love Bleach… I can’t stand it. (Though they’re cousins by marriage, so it could just be a DNA thing.) Steve Nash won two MVPs. He should win games, and if he doesn’t, he deserves an overrated status. Haruhi Suzumiya is more like Josh Howard… quite unknown, drafted very late in the first round, wasn’t even a top three guy on the Mavs before the post season (Dirk, Terry, Stack), but suddenly became the reason why they held off Nash and the Suns. (He’s a more aggressive Tayshaun, and Tay was the only reason the Pistons didn’t lose against LBJ.)
As for the most underrated show, it’s not Haruhi. It’s, by far, Higurashi no Naku Koro ni. (The series would be Quintin Ross. Quick! What team does he play for? Did I even spell his name right? See… out of the blue…) Even less people talked about it, yet it’s dominating people’s discussions now. It’s the #1 show in terms of reader popularity on The 好ã while NANA isn’t even top 5. At least Haruhi is #1 in terms of post volume and #2 in reader volume. The number one stat for those lovable killer lolis? Normally, as a show goes on, it’s download numbers from episode to episode drop.
This is what Mikuru-run’s look like for afk for 1 to 8: [spark] [type bar] [size 40, 8] [series 86,70,69,65,55,40,40,35,32][/spark]
This is what Rika’s look like for WinD for 3 to 8: [spark] [type bar] [size 40, 8] [series 8.7,12.3,12.0,11.8,7.8,9.7][/spark]
With Higurashi, the numbers are very stable and even trend somewhat upward. Uncommon, and it shows a series that might just be quite underrated. While I don’t like Air Gear or Disgaea, I don’t call them overrated. I expected them to be bad, and they delivered. If I had no opinions on Haruhi, and I enjoyed it (remember, I was debating on blogging about Zegapain, Haruhi, Belldandy, and Black Lagoon when the season began?). Okay, so people out there probably have read either Omni’s, Matt’s, or even my opinion on the series, watch it, then wonder, “Well, it’s not so great.” The thing is, Melancholy of Haruhi Suzumiya isn’t overrated to me because I didn’t know. I didn’t read any of the novels. Didn’t follow any Japanese blog. Didn’t read any English blog about it (since no one, uh, talked about it until after the first episode). In Omni’s, Matt’s, Suguru’s, mine, and everyone else’s case, we all watched it, thought it was great, and posted our unfiltered opinions.
Now, it’s the second wave. People who have read our opinions and go by that… so for these people, Haruhi may be overrated with respect to our praise, but it wasn’t that case. Extrapolating it out, the original opinion was anything but overrated, and, even in Japan, not many people know of the series as the novel sales apparently have skyrocketed after it aired. It’s not that it’s overrated… for these people, it’s disappointing. English semantics, I know, but as Colin Powell once noted, in order to talk intelligently about any subject, we must we the correct language for it. (“Battlefield detainees” my ass.) For us, it was a very underrated show and quite a gem, for you, it may be a dissapointment. I think that unless someone said before March 1 that “Haruhi is going to be the cat’s meow,” I’m not sure how it can anything but underrated these days. Average of over 50k downloads an episode (over 5x Higurashi‘s average, 9x NANA‘s average), a 9+ rating, top 2 popularity on The 好ã, huge ass popularity on various anime forums, what more proof does one need? It went from zero to prom queen. And it’s an uphill battle trying to convince me why Haruhi is more overrated than NANA. I want graphs, charts, everything, desho desho.
(Dallas in 6. Dirk is the real MVP.)
60 Responses to “overrated, underrated, and what they really mean”
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HI, IM GEORGE ZIMMER AND THIS IS A BAD COMMENT, I GUARENTEE IT.
Excellent work there. If Higurashi starts to drag halfway through, generating a massive onanosphere backlash, you can just reuse this post!
On a more serious note, semirecent Animedia new anime popularity rankings.
While it indicates that Haruhi isn’t all that in the motherland, and NANA is, uh, getting the recognition it deserves, it also claims that Air Gear’s viewership is 71% female.
Yes, that Air Gear.
I agree with most of the things you said. Please add to your underrated list, the series ARIA. If you are willing to include a series that concluded about 10 weeks ago, please add Soltyrei, a good series that was ignored by almost everybody just because GONZO was in charge. Since I have unfavorable opinion of NANA comics itself, while having much praise for the Haruhi novels, I believe the overall anime quality is similar to the quality of the original materials.
Some might conclude Fate/SN to be overrated, but I think we are getting what we should have gotten from the original game itself as well; in other word, I am calling the game itself to be not as good as most are proclaiming.
You have to take all polls done in Asian countries with huge lump of salt. Every magazine has particularly strong ties to certain anime/comic series, thus will poll people they expect to have strong preference to thsoe series. you have to see the target reader of those magazines as well as sample size, and I strongly suspect heavy bias in the magazine as well as small sample size. The poll to which I linked in one of the previous comments was done by a Japanese TV network, thus somewhat less of bias, as well as large sample size of over 100,000 people polled, and it showed overwhelming support for Suzumiya Haruhi. Suzumiya Haruhi is the most talked about anime in Korea, most often posted, and most sought after. Its translated books have even cracked some of book sale rankings in Korea. Well, I am going off to see the episode 10.
Fun with semantics! What you’re talking about here isn’t really a question of being overrated, it’s a question of being overhyped. Hype comes from press releases, the speculations of people who don’t have a whole lot of information going in, things like that. If people spend a year talking about how cool something’s going to be, and when it finally arrives, it’s nothing to write home about, that’s overhyped. Then things nobody talks about, which upon release become astoundingly popular, are generally refered to as “sleeper hits.” Haruhi and Higurashi both qualify there I think it’s safe to say.
Overrated and underrated come in when critics get their hands on something and totally lose touch with reality. If you don’t like something everyone else is praising, you can’t call it overrated. You could however say, for instance, that Haruhi was vastly underrated if there were a bunch of people out there saying the animation qualty or attention to detail were terrible. You might even be able to get away with saying something like “the Slayers OAVs are seriously overrated. It’s just the same joke over and over.” Assuming there were a lot of reviews out there implying there was more to the humor than Nahga’s chest.
What you can’t do though is say that “Haruhi is overrated, nothing exciting ever happens.” Nobody out there is saying “Haruhi is awesome because it’s full of big epic space battles for the fate of mankind.” People are saying the production values are amazing, the premise isn’t something you see every day, and Mikuru is constantly cowering in the corner after being costume raped. These are all objectively true, unless you really want to start nitpicking over where the bar is set for animation quality, or what ratio of screen time per episode is required to qualify as constantly.
Seriously this whole talk of impaling yourself with kitchen utensils is sending my suicide detection training into disarray. Either your running on too much midnight oil or the Blog suki move in addtion to real life work has taken its toll. Here’s a number you should call if only to vent 1-800-273-8255 (1-800-273-TALK) – National Suicide Prevention Lifeline. Even if you don’t think your going to do it you might end up dead under greater stress. There was one petty officer that took his own life and left behind his whole family because he took on too much and didn’t talk about his problems. He finally did him self in after taking too many caffine pills and failed to sleep for 24 hours.
You have made a very convincing arguement about what consitutes an overrated series, you even brought in examples and statistics.
Though demanding graphs and charts is insufficient since we all know that we can lie with statistics.
I guess that all the backlash against Haruhi is due to the fanaticism that it has inspired and the instant cult status that has claimed. I reserve final judgement for Nana when it runs its full course.
>>â€Battlefield detainees†my ass.
Prisoners of War means we have to treat them like human beings and the phrase may generate sympathy (Thing is one the one hand some of them were at the wrong place at the wrong time, others are the type of scumbags who pushing kids into oncoming convoys and using them as human shields. The dilemma here is that is it better to risk jailing an innocent man or to allow the possiblity of letting a guilty man go free to kill again?). Intelligence and government don’t seem to be bedfellows as of late.
Your definition of overrated is weird.
I agree with Googleshng. I think you’re talking about something else entirely.
HYPE noun [mass noun] extravagent or intensive publicity or promotion. [count noun] a deception carried out for the sake of publicity. verb [with obj.] promote or publicize (a product or idea) intensively, often exaggerating its benefit. – ORIGINS 1920s (originally US in the sense ‘short-change, cheat’ or ‘person who cheats etc.’). OED (2005), p.852.
Jason’s archaelogy of blogposts reminds me of how little anticipation there was of Haruhi among the opinion-leaders / makers of the animeblogging community and general fandom; most which was along the lines of: “KyoAni is doing this series I’ve never heard of, let’s have a look.” However, while there was huge fan-generated hype over the Adventures of Mikuru Asahina, there was also considerable scepticism over how this was going to be sustained over a half-season run.
OVERRATE verb [with obj.] [often as adj. overrated] have a higher opinion of (someone or something) than is deserved. OED (2005), p.1256.
IMHO the key words are “opinion” and “deserved” – what is legitimate opinion? What constitutes the standard for “deserving” hallejulahs or condemnation? Jason’s post glosses over the issue of taste but I think this is why the debate of Haruhi is so heated – it’s a struggle over the definition of taste and it’s hard not to take disputes over taste very personally.
Again, the responses to episode zero set the bar – some fans (like myself) made fun of those who didn’t get it. Since then, those who felt unfairly and unjustly hounded over their initial condemnation of Haruhi feel more justified as cracks in the unity of the Church of Haruhi have appeared over the juggling of episode orders, question marks over Lone Island, Haruhi being too obnoxious or too normal etc etc. Some waverers may be concerned that they’ll look foolish if the series goes tits up and are hedging their bets with criticism now. Others dig in our heels while thundering our eventual vindication as revealed to us via the Revelation of Haruhi Suzumiya… unto Her Servant Kyon.
Actually, I think all this sound and fury, in itself, is a great indicator of how much this series has come from nowhere to become a sensation. Nothing sustains interest like controversy and a series that gets fans worked up occupies more of the mental furniture than something pleasant, inoffensive and, ultimately, forgettable.
Quite a few commenters attacked Jason’s suggestion that Haruhi had the potential to be another Evangelion. What isn’t emphasized in that discourse is the immense fan fury as Evangelion finished its final story arc, ranging from “WTF!? I thought this was a big robot and cute girl anime!! *shakes fist at Anno*” to “Too much recycled footage!” and of course “The ending made no sense! I’ve been cheated!! We demand an OVA! (Anno: Ok, let’s kill everyone.)” And now, ten years after all the dust has settled, the conventional wisdom is that it’s a great classic and still selling platinum edition DVDs and hordes of merchandise. Funny thing, that phenomenon called fandom.
What’s all the anger about? Oyashiro sama got to you guys? Vash the Stampede says, “Love and Peace”. Opinions are opinions. So if Guy 1 thinks what Guy 2 rates highly is not as good as he says it is, then he has the right to make the claim that that something is “over-rated”. It’s such a subjective concept that you cannot fault anyone for it.
So erm… SHaruhi parallels NGE in one aspect in that there two very vocal camps of lovers and haters? That would be cute to reflect upon ten years later.
For the record, I belong to the “WTF! This is the ending?” camp for NGE’s Ep26. I hold back my comments on EoE.
I said it before, but to repeat myself, SHaruhi was not even a figment of my imagination before April. It simply did not exist in my mind. It took a review of the second episode before I was sufficiently interested to give it a try.
Anyway, as a Yuki fanboy, I am anxiously waiting for Ep10 to be subbed. SHaruhi’s Ep10 seems to have blown a lot of people’s minds away, in a good way.
As someone once wrote… “Calm before the storm”. Think Yuki was too silent in Ep09? Hehehehe…
One thing people need to keep in mind is that SHaruhi is not an episodic series at its’ heart. The events in each episode are all very much related to one another. The payoff will not be seen until the finale. In this case, they have chosen the ending of Volume01 to be the endpoint for this season.
Consider some of the earlier episodes to be build-up. :)
Cheers.
Honestly I could care less if people think Haruhi (which is what I presumed prompted this post) is overrated. I mean if you don’t like it or you’re not enjoying it just don’t watch it, there’s plenty of other shows out there but hey thats just me.
In terms of what constitutes as overrated and what is underrated in my mind it has much to do with popularity simply put – if alot of people love it but it sucks it’s overrated – if a series isn’t getting any love but it’s good its underrated.
Somtimes however, people look at a particular flaw and run with it. This can lead to unfair criticism but look at it this way LeBron was called overrated because he came up short in the clutch in a few games… where are those critics now?
On a side note its Quinton Ross (yes I had to look that up)and he plays for the Clippers. Could you please refrain from mentioning the words two time MVP and Steve Nash ever again, only recently did I get rid of my eye twitch.
…you cannot claim the right of free expression then tell people to stop arguing. I mean, surely this is self-evident?
>>> Nothing sustains interest like controversy and a series that gets fans worked up occupies more of the mental furniture than something pleasant, inoffensive and, ultimately, forgettable.
There are exceptions. Jane Austin’s novels usually has happy ending and doesn’t make much dramatic proclamations, but it is well beloved and still much studied. Longevity of a series has more to do with its own merits than the controversy it raised. If controversy is more than half of the equation for fame, Koi Kaze would be much more well known and talked about.
>>> And now, ten years after all the dust has settled, the conventional wisdom is that it’s a great classic and still selling platinum edition DVDs and hordes of merchandise.
Conventional wisdom is not always correct. Throughout the history of literature and music, what was once perceived as monumental gradually became forgotten, while some forgotten things was brought back to spotlight after hundreds of years of darkness. I know this, for I have recorded several Gregorian Chant CD using 9th century manuscripts. Let it be on the record that I do not like Evangellion series and believe it to receive more credits and praises than it should. However, its influence to general pop culture world may actually be underrated, still.
>>> Since then, those who felt unfairly and unjustly hounded over their initial condemnation of Haruhi…
I think that they bear some of the responsibilities for judging anytyhing without sufficient data. You cannot make a judgement based on just one episode, especially when it was painfully obvious that the whole thing was a caricature of a typical blockbuster movies. However, I never knew that so many people made fun of or attacked those who disliked Suzumiya Haruhi series. If that is the case, I owe them an apology for the first sentence of this paragraph.
There was a good discussion about conventional wisdom in this link.
http://anime.jefflawson.net/20.....how-rocks/
Well, Nana got lot of hype and fully deserves it. It’s superior at every aspect i care (i don’t watch anime because of animation quality) if compared to SHaruhi. It’s all about opinions.
Nice post. I dunno that I’d trust the graph about release downloads, though. afk is a stable, more or less standard sub group, while Wind’s releases of Higurashi have been… well, anything but normal. The stability in download numbers there is quite possibly attributable to people switching away from Ayu/Triad in numbers large enough to replace a normal decline of interest.
I haven’t seen Haruhi yet and in this environment, I think it has an impossible task of living up to all the (positive and negative) hype. Just like people were calling it the new Evangelion after a few episodes, there is now a backlash using the same flawed logic of ruling out a series without having seen it to it’s end. If I’m honest, it looks like fanboy oriented clap-trap; just like FMP! and Otome, and while I’m hoping there is more to it than “oh, how cute! hahaha” and “she’s well fit!!”, the jury is still out. The same goes for Higurashi. Both series have fickle fans.
Speaking of NANA, of the 5 episodes I’ve seen, it has turned out quite well as a fairly ADULT drama. It doesn’t have your bunny girls, but it’s heart is in the right place.
I didn’t know what Haruhi was about either, and I can tell ya, the first ep didn’t do very much to inspire me to keep watching. But I’m either a sucker for punishment or a very very hopeful and optimistic joker, and I ended up continuing for the sake of it. Thankfully it didn’t disappoint.
Obligatory side note: I swear, the length of some comments can be used to fill up an essay. My eyes start to glaze over everytime I see a solid wall of text. (I like to harp on this kind of thing, so bear with me.)
While i agree with your definition of “overrated”, i think, like Googleshng and others, that the content of your post corresponds more to an explanation of “overhyped”.
About Haruhi. Hardly anyone talked about it prior airing, it has been underhyped for sure. Now this show generates an unheard of quantity of flood on various blogs and forums, fans went as far as putting Haruhism as a religion on wikipedia.
However, after a few promising episodes, i thought it was getting barely entertaining. The problem is, this show lacks something deep. It’s all about great graphics, Mikuru fan service, and the fancy ED. Take out Mikuru from the mix like in ep8, and you’re facing what i would call a plain series, which doesn’t deserve such a massive amounts of flood/praise/whatever. This is exactly the definition of overrated.
Btw, contrary to what you may think, i don’t dislike this series at all. I loved ep9 a lot, the atmosphere made me feel very mellow and nostalgic (perhaps the “deep something” i was looking for), and i hope future episodes will be as brillant as this one.
As for Higurashi, it has been obviously underhyped, but i don’t think it’s currently underrated : the show delivers and is praised to a sensible extend. Higurashi might have turned ppl away at first because of its subpar loli-esque art, but that’s another problem.
This is from the ‘Random Curosity’ website. It shows that Spirit of Haruhi still thrives.
Quote ————————-
Oh this ep is the Bomb, i loved the fighting screen with all the great animation.
While checking out that ep on youtube, i came across this, the dancing gundams for the opening.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=V3D.....h=Suzumiya
by AnimeFan159 June 4th, 2006 at 9:58 pm
————————— end quote
Haha! I see tonnes of morons! If you like a show, then go ahead and like it. If you hate a show, you can jolly well don’t give a flying fuck about it.
If people are going to change the way the enjoy their shows just to be in line with the opinions of the public and dumb blogs, THEY ARE FUCKING MORONS!
And stop arguing over definitions kudasai. Preferences? Ratings? Killer hentai karmen loli? Fuck these shit. NO ONE CAN TRULY JUDGE AN ANIME’S WORTH. I CAN SAY NARUTO ANIME’S A PIECE OF SHIT WITH STUPID PLOTS AND FILLERS BUT OTHERS CAN SAY IT’S A GEM OF ALL ANIMES TO HAVE A NINJA ON A JOURNEY COUNSELLING RETARDS LIKE HIM. So what are oyu going to judge an anime based on? The animation quality? The story? FUCK. Noein has the best animation FTWWTFBBQ. Disagree? You suck.
If you don’t get what I’m saying, you suck more.
“Overrated” means “it sucks, you suck for liking it, and I am awesome because I think it sucks but you don’t.” “Underrated” means “it is awesome, you suck for not liking it, and I am awesome because I know that it sucks but you don’t.”
>>Some might conclude Fate/SN to be overrated, but I think we are getting what we should have gotten from the original game itself as well; in other word, I am calling the game itself to be not as good as most are proclaiming.
Correction. The entire story is a new one. It is not a faithful portrayal of any of the game’s three arcs. Wait a few months for the Tsukihime English Patch(for the game), and give it a playthrough. Then we’ll see if you can call Nasu overrated.
Also, if you call Fate/Stay Night overrated, I have every right to call Clannad overrated. I’m even going to go out on a limb here and call every visual novel and kinetic novel ever created overrated. YES, I AM CALLING PLANETARIAN OVERFUCKINGRATED, BITCH.
Hype is what you make of it. Cut through the hype and get to the facts. Hype is a person’s opinions on any matter. It is impossible to trust a person’s opinions, even if they run in similar lines, because whatever experiences a person has is unique only to him/her. The best way to gauge a work is to experience it, then see if you like it or not. Like it or not, it’s the only proven method of seeing if you like a series or not. As a rule of thumb, I usually measure hype as a means to see what is popular, and nothing else.
The way I see it, we will never agree on which series is overrated, and which is not. Let us drop this arguement and turn to much better things to write about, like how Oyashiro is really Wallachia from Melty Blood.
Conclusion: DRM is the winner out of all the above but he sucks for using CLANNAD as a example. Oyashiro Wallachia. Muahaha I still can’t get over it.
I think the most important thing to remember here is the definition supplied earlier:
OVERRATE verb [with obj.] [often as adj. overrated] have a higher opinion of (someone or something) than is deserved. OED (2005), p.1256.
Note the word “opinion” – opinion is not a fact and need only by gut instinct or some other ethereal reason. To declare a series “overrated” is also an opinion. Hell, I could declare half the spring season “overrated” if I wanted to. Why? I felt like it, nya-nya!
The fact is SHnY has people enjoying it – some people will of course not enjoy it, depending on whatever reason. That’s your opinion. Personally, I find it much easier to dump a series and ignore it totally – like in the saying, if you have nothing nice to say, I don’t say it – I think it’s called trolling if you do that on the Internet. ^_^ Not that those who dislike the series’ current direction are totally loony – they have points but they all eventually devolve into the prima causa – “It disappoints me” – while the pro-Haruhi guys devolve into the opposite prima causa – “I enjoy it”.
Simplified into that, the debate is simply an Is not!/Is too! argument writ large.
The simple conclusion is: no one is forcing you to watch the show and no one is certainly forcing you to bad mouth the show. Don’t like it? Stop watching – bringing up the “I’m already too far gone in the series” reason is childish – we assume you have mature minds and are but people not sheep. Like the show? Defending the show from its detractors is well and good but, hey, no pulling facts out of the hat – say you like it because you like it, that it forces a positive gut reaction out of you. No need for facts and figures. Sheep just baa endlessly, people say what they believe in and stand by it, no justification required, and are proud of it.
People don’t like what your stand is, fuck them and shut up about it. Step away from the internet and watch or do not watch the show anyway. I’d like to repeat, you are not sheep, you are people. The blogosphere for a human being is like one of those old maps: “Here There Be Dragons” – it’s up to you how you travel. But remember, sheep tend to get led to the shearing shed, no matter how nice the shepherd is. But, hey, at least you don’t have to think or do anything right? Thinking is hard! Just eat that grass!
>“Overrated†means “it sucks, you suck for liking it, and >I am awesome because I think it sucks but you don’t.†>“Underrated†means “it is awesome, you suck for not >liking it, and I am awesome because I know that it sucks >but you don’t.â€
BWAHAHAHA!!!
Well, isn’t that enough enough reson to request the entire anime blogosphere declare the above two word as WMDs and have bloggers and their commentors only use them only twice a year and any violation being punished by either UN sanctions or an airstrike? ^_^
But grass is rather hard to chew, don’t you think?
I’d rather have mine pureed and turned into a drink.
Debating the merits of a show/band/team/movie/artist is what fans do — it’s a key source of pleasure (ideally) in fandom. And it’s a healthy sign when the debate goes meta — i.e. about how to debate the merits, the most useful terms/frameworks/references.
These kind of debates don’t necessarily (virtually never?) change the minds of any of the participants in the moment, but they can shape the legacy of a show — how new viewers come to watch it later on (since they’ll be watching within/against the original audiences’ reception & evaluation), and even how past viewers come to rewatch it . More importantly, these debates can shape the broader aesthetic/critical lenses, assumptions, expectations that anime fans subsequently bring to other series.
With great power comes great responsibility….
Heh , THis is the most fun series this season no doubt… I was a big Mikuru – run fan until episode 9… Haruhi won me completly over… Haruhi FTW… Like many , I had no idea what to think of this series in the begining. Episode 00 didn’t do anything for me… I can apreciate it now, but then I wasn’t sure if this was going to be worth the watch. It was always in my top 4 and now I can confidently say it is my number 1 series this season. Not bad for an unknown.. and going against some good series this season…Ouran Host , Nana (which is a fun romantic comedy, and not overratted IMHO) and some other good unknowns like Utawaremono…
I’d say the difference between overrated and overhyped needs to be defined. Nana was hyped before release, and since then it has gradually eased into a pattern of gaining mixed reviews and little in the way of “zomg amazing!!!” hype, and so I would hesitate to call the show overrated, merely overhyped. Of course, this is within the scope of the blogsphere, which really is an miniscule sector of anime fandom.
Quote —-
This is from the ‘Random Curosity’ website. It shows that Spirit of Haruhi still thrives.
—- Quote
Yeah, but the majority of people posting there are the kind of Bleach-tards who can’t spell and whose posts mostly involves one liners such as “WOW” “OMG” LOLZ” and many variations of them. It’s barely an indication of whether they follow the show because it’s good or because they are sheeps.
This first picture of the entry is what really catches my attention~ :D
>>> I’m even going to go out on a limb here and call every visual novel and kinetic novel ever created overrated.
I sympathize with you, here.
>>>No need for facts and figures.
I beg to differ.
>>> Yeah, but the majority of people posting there are the kind of Bleach-tards who can’t spell and whose posts mostly involves one liners such as “WOW†“OMG†LOLZ†and many variations of them. It’s barely an indication of whether they follow the show because it’s good or because they are sheeps.
bored_now, The reason I copied the post was because of the link to the dancing gundam video. I did not want to take the credit of finding it, so I was revealing my source.
I find Suzumiya Haruhi funny, but story wise, I find it quite lame, which is contrary to what other people has said.
Mi~ I just know that before the spring season began I was looking through what series were going to air, and thought I’d be most interested in Haruhi (I didn’t even know KyoAni was doing the animation beforehand) and Higurashi just because I knew nothing about them (and now they are my favorite series this season). I’m also a NANA manga fan and was happy to hear there would be an anime, but I honestly thought it would suck, so I think it’s doing alright (but deffinately not the top, it’s just a higher quality to most other series, and I agree that it doesn’t top the other shoujo series this season by BONES).
Ugh, I hope Honey and Clover II wont be overrated, I usually don’t like second series. But Hachimitsu is my favorite series, hopefully I’ll be lucky.
I completely agree.
All the there’s too many nay sayer and we definitly need more post like yours to balance and give are clearer view for everyone.
I remember I searched for Suzumiya Haruhi no Yuutsu at Jan, in google there’s like only 10 result, 8 of them book store, 2 others about the book, basicly just tell you it’s from a guy that write it and won the Jumper awards, and that was it.
I went go got the firs 3 novels, then I got the rest at apirl and the price of the books have rocketed, it’s 2x times the price of the orignal price.
Once more thing, I am chinese, when I visit chinese site / blog, most peoples are happy with Haruhi (I am est. 90%) while in english blog / site it’s more split!? maybe it’s culture differences?
I’d tend to agree with you Yuki – I’m a chinese as well (from HK), and I do find the cultural similarities help a lot in grasping the original bits and tits of any japanese animations.
English translations, however hard they try, still suffer a bigger loss in style & information. It’s better with animes like Gundam and worse for animes like Haruhi.
Maybe the Westerners just like to whine a lot more than the Asians? J/K
Personally I don’t realy read anime blogs/forums that much since I’m new in the anime fandom. I kind of feel blessed in a way. My view of the show is not influenced by what bloggers or others have said about it. I like the show because it speaks to me, and it’s just good entertainment.
I am in general agreement with Yuki and Alex’s statement, that Cultural difference does play a role in appreciation.
This is like the second or third time you’ve bashed on Nash? Ok, I too, was a little surprised to hear he won for a second consecutive time, but stats show that Nash won MVP in a landslide. 924 points to LBJ’s 688 and Dirk’s 544. He’s GOT to be doing something right to be King Bron.
“At no point did I think, ‘Steve Nash will lead an Amare-less Suns to an Obrien Trophy.'” Exactly. The fact that they even got that far is amazing. IF he had Amare and a healthy Bell, even K Thomas, maybe, then I’m sure they would be in the finals. Remember how many Lakers in 7 predictions? Remember how Amare dismembered the Mavs last year? 40-16 game 1. 30-16 game 2. 37-14 game 3. Yeah, they’ve done well this postseason.
Now, at this moment, I wouldn’t argue teeth and nail that Nash is better than Dirk -what’s holding me down is 50-12 -, but he deserves praise and an MVP trophy takes the cake. I would also *try* to defend Nana, but that would be a lost cause.
Nash is the most valuable player to the league, for he is the one responsible for all those 7 games playoff series, thus more revenue for the network and the league. It is all about the money, and if Nash makes NBA even more profitable by ushering in the new age of high scoring games, he is going to win MVP again.
I think overrated and underrated are relative terms, so you could apply them to anything you like less than most other people–but they’re not a very polite way to say you don’t like something, so discussions about things being overrated tend to devolve into flame wars and people stating their opinions as fact. Saying something is overrated is essentially saying that all the people who rate it highly are WRONG, and when you’re talking about other people’s opinions that’s just not possible. For example, I don’t like Higurashi–but I would never say that means it’s overrated, even though it gets lots of rave reviews. It’s just in a genre I don’t care for, so it could be the best horror anime ever, popular enough to have Mion and Shion appear on the cover of People magazine holding hammers and nails, and I still wouldn’t like it. If people just said “I don’t like series X as much as other people, and here’s why” instead of “series X is overrated” I think it’d keep the flameage down a little.
Such emotional responses…as if there is any true significance to the subject. Flow…flow…flow…zzz…
Also, I laugh at how everyone can say that something is overrated. If everyone says that something is overrated, how can it have the “wrong” rating? That would mean that everyone thinks that the overrated thing is bad, and thus it’s no longer overrated since everyone is in agreeance with what its rating should be. It is now correctly rated.
[That would mean that everyone thinks that the overrated thing is bad, and thus it’s no longer overrated since everyone is in agreeance with what its rating should be. It is now correctly rated]
Egghead.
As for Jason’s post… I dunno. I guess I should make a banner or something saying, “YES, I DO LIKE HARUHI” and put it at the top of my site. Honestly, I love the show, but also grow more and more annoyed with it by the day – and I don’t think I have to explain why.
[Dallas in 6. Dirk is the real MVP.]
I can agree with that, at least.
…where the hell is Yuki keeping those breasts!? Damn. I mean, they aren’t that large, but in the show I didn’t think she had THAT much.
Personally… I think all anime is overrated, but that’s because I’m cynical and pessimistic.
I said it’s overrated because it doesn’t deserve the praise it was getting. I watched a couple of episodes, I enjoyed it, but the way the whole anime community (blogs, forums, EVERYTHING) are raving over it seems to me like overrating. For me it’s an above average anime that’s fun and well-animated, but it’s not the “ZOMG I’M CONVERTING TO HARUHIISM” drug that many seems addicted to. Hence: Overrated. Note that this was all around the time I watched Episode 3 or 4, and by now I think Haruhi’s reputation is more along the lines of what it deserves.
I know many share my believes. Lolikitsune even goes as far as to say that Haruhi is shit, if I remember correctly.
I would try to defend Nana as well but its only strength is its story, and as an anime it’s definitely nowhere near the standard that many of the current season sets.
Yeah, methinks we should cool heads a little. Air getting very sparkly. BTW, love the bunny girl pic. =)
Hmm… in my opinions,
..) Black Lagoon is currently VERY underrated. I know there are people watching it, but not many are talking about it( relative to other anime series). It does not even have its’ own discussion THREAD on the AnimeSuki Forums. Yikes.
For example, even in this blog entry. Besides Jason’s mention of his past mention of Black Lagoon, nobody, and I do mean NOBODY, else mentioned Black Lagoon.
You think Higurashi had it bad in the Spring Previews? Try looking for Black Lagoon in the previews that Jason linked to. Besides two readers’ comments, only one of the bloggers mentioned Black Lagoon and he explicitly said that he was not interested…
Black Lagoon is THE underrated AND underhyped show of Spring Season 2006. In my opinion of course.
..) Higurashi is currently not underrated, but it was underhyped. It is probably the sleeper hit of this season, the dark horse.
The story is gold so far, but I fear the animation may kill it in the long run.
..) SHaruhi? Definitely not overhyped, but its’ influence was very viral. By sheer word of mouth alone, it overshadowed most of its’ competition. Is it overrated? Hmm… subjective. SHaruhi-mania( but pro and anti) is still feverish, and passions still run high.
I am definitely confident about one thing though. SHaruhi is not a bad anime. I would even go so far as to say that it is an excellent anime, but the jury is still out on whether it is an EPIC anime.
..) Never watched Nana, never read Nana. So no comments on Nana.
Cheers.
I’m reading the fourth Haruhi novel right now (splurged and bought 3-8 a week ago). Very interesting and I’m irked that it won’t be animated any time soon.
Your definitions of underrated and overrated are very dependent on the time bracket. Yes, Haruhi was definitely underrated back then, but if you just look at the current situation, it is not. Judging by your download numbers and the amount of attention given to the series, it’s overrated now.
See! We’re still arguing over which series is overrated and which is not! This is the kind of discussion that leads to flamewars! Let’s just accept that every series is unique in its own way(good and/or bad) and let’s get on with our lives! Or do I have to call an army of homosexuals to hump each and everyone of us on national television?
I like to introduct thinking in context of history here. More and more people are getting dissatisfied with Suzumiya Haruhi, but that series already has left some permanent marks. Here are my exhibits. Please tell me if I got any of the fact wrong, or whether they are irrelevant.
#1. Before Suzumiya Haruhi, at least in Korea, low resolution anime episode had size of about 50MB, medium around 100 MB, and high around 150MB. After Haruhi, all those sizes doubled. I doubt it is a coincidence, because for the first two weeks, Haruhi episodes were only animes with size above 400MB. Haruhi series opened people’s eye to even higher animation quality.
#2. Suzumiya Haruhi has made people buy books all over the world. There were other novels turned to anime that succeeded, but most already had well established fan base before the anime series. Series like ‘Legend of Galactic Hero’ already sold millions before its OVA came out. Haruhi was well respected novel, but its sale skyrocketed after the anime aired. Not only that, the Hyperion series has seen a rise in the sale, thanks to Yuki. Suzumiya Haruhi is also the first series to future top 100 book recommendation list as a side product, something the publishers will try again in near future. Already, many Japanese publishing companies are talking about expanding their international markets.
#3. Never has an Anime series led to world wide dance craze. We are going to see lot more dances in future anime series.
#4. I never knew of existence of Youtube.com before Haruhi. Some US magazines ran some articles concerning websites like Youtube sometime after Haruhi ep. 3 aired. Coincidence?
#5. Haruhi is the first series I know that has tried to establish a pseudo-religious-joke community. This is something that was seen only by likes of Star Trek, Star Wars, and Doctor Who. Only series that has tried to create a cult is Gundam with the new-type religion: I was a acolyte of this religion when I was young.
#6. We have not seen the level of cosmological and philosophical debate involved with Suzumiya Haruhi since the movie, Akira. Due to the fact that Akira was made before the internet, to many English-speaking Fans, Suzumiya Haruhi would be the first anime series to introduce concepts like Chaotic Inflation Theory ( translation: can Haruhi create as many universe as she wants? ) and Phenomenalism ( Translation: If Kyon never talked to Haruhi in the first place, would Yuki, Mikuru, or Itsuki exist? ) .
#7. I don’t remember an Anime series that utters the word, MOE, on air, other than Haruhi. Judging by reactions of many, Mikuru may have become the gold standard of Moe for the near future.
#8. I have experience only two other burst of blog related activities: one is whenever the blogmaster is doing a poll, the other is about the ending of Canvas2. There may have been other series that had people fervently posting and commenting, but I susepct Suzumiya Haruhi may have raised the bar here as well.
Overall I think it is wrong to compare Suzumiya Haruhi to Evangellion. I think its impact should be compared to Gundam, which, in my mind, is a higher level than Evangellion. It should be noted that the first sign of Haruhi madness was the Gundam recreation of Haruhi ED Theme dance.
A Side note: Haruhi from Ouran deserves to be noticed as well. Ouran is first pure girly series that has attracted very large number of male viewers. To many, Fujioka Haruhi would be the first time they view a female character who isn’t concerned with social interaction even though she could look pretty and very feminine if she tries.
Dallas in 6!!! Excellent Analogy! Haruhi! Crazy Insight! WTH!
Quote from DrmChsr0:
“Or do I have to call an army of homosexuals to hump each and everyone of us on national television?”
Too overrated for my tastes! lololol
I believe that NANA is NOT overrated. The thing that differs NANA from Haruhi and Ouran is that NANA has a more realistic storyline. I can consider it as a JDorama if it is not an anime.
Maybe Ouran and Haruhi leads in their own genre, but NANA is in a different genre.
Although, I do believa that Haruhi is underrated. Maybe because the first episode is not that catchy (literally the 1st episode aired).
Haruhi is indeed underrated. Where can you find such a light-hearted and in-depth storyline in an Anime?
This topic is so overrated.
i seriously believe that haruhi is underated. NANA totally sucks and is like SO DAMN OVERRATED that it pisses me off. where can you find a totally funny anime that spoofs other animes? i think that haruhi totally rocks. UNLIKE NANA
Late, but re: wontaek’s #7? Ouran Host Club, I believe, does say Moe on air.
Going from nothing to prom queen means underrated.What the….! Then,doesn’t that means Code Geass and every other anime in ANN top 50 is underrated.This post obviously about a fanboy trying to promote Haruhi.Nuff said.