melancholy of haruhi suzumiya 8 (2)
Categories: anime, episodic review, melancholy of haruhi suzumiya
Tagged: haruhi suzumiya
49 Comments »
Three reasons for this post: One, I completed Phoenix Wright Ace Attorney (and currently am working on Justice for All… I hope to complete this game by May 2007). Two, I read the novel chapters containing this episode. Three, I haven’t watched any anime besides Prince of Tennis and Kanon 12 the past three weeks.
In my original post for this episode, I was lukewarm to it and never really liked it. A lot of the episode bothered me, but I really couldn’t a finger on it. Now, after rewatching it again, I know what’s bothering me: Kyoto strayed from the Haruhi Suzumiya formula.
There’s a few worthwhile differences from the novel:
1. Imouto never comes with the SOS Brigade to the island. She does do the “loli-in-a-bag” gimmick, but Kyon doesn’t bring her along.
2. The SOS Brigade gets drunk on wine, with Haruhi forbidding the members from consuming more alcohol anymore.
3. Haruhi and Kyon didn’t trip and fall outside the mansion and spend time drying clothes Athrun/Cagali-style in a cave.
4. Kyon, and Kyon alone, figures out the “mystery.”
5. Yuki was the one to touch the “body,” not Haruhi.
6. Phoenix Wright.
Why are these significant?
Reading the novel, it seemed to focus less on the mystery at hand and more on the philosophical nature of their situation with their uber-God. With Haruhi taking a more prominent role of detective in the anime version, there’s less of the philosophical bantering within Kyon about Haruhi and Haruhi’s perchance for creating things subconsciously. By making a few subtle changes, Kyoto shifted the weight of Lone Island Syndrome from being an arc about Haruhi and her powers and her whims to a murder mystery.
For example, in the novel, it seems like Kyon spent more time with Itsuki than with Haruhi… and the two would naturally banter on about Suzumiya’s whims and powers than in the anime which was more Haruhi and Kyon focused. We’re also given the Yuki “turn around and go, ‘Suki'” scene instead of the scene where the SOS Brigade gets plastered (with Yuki drinking wine like if she were Miss Nevada)… and Kyon passes out and doesn’t remember anything except that Itsuki carried him off to bed. Can you imagine the reaction to this episode if the original scene took place? I’m pretty sure Itsuki’s square would be orange by now. (This scene is also probably why she banned future alcohol consumption…) Still, the point is that it’s hard to gossip with Haruhi about Haruhi, and by focusing the episode on Haruhi instead, they took that component out.
There’s also the perplexing scene where Haruhi and Kyon leave the mansion to check for the boat… in the novel, they see that the boat is not there and then return inside. In the anime, Haruhi “thinks” that she sees someone, and the two tumble down and dry out in a cave. What this scene accomplishes in the anime (besides showing us Haruhi playing around with her bra) is that it gives Haruhi and Kyon a chance to gloss over the murder mystery– something that they didn’t have time or opportunity to do in the novel. Actually, they did… only it was between Kyon and Itsuki. Kyoto had to toss in this scene to complete the change of principal players from Kyon and Itsuki to Kyon and Haruhi. There’s only two problems: the first is that if they couldn’t find an easy way back, how did Itsuki find them so easily? Wasn’t the storm still raging outside? It made the scene feel contrived to me. And when I start getting the contrived vibes, I start thinking of Sunrise. Second, it’s not established yet at this point if Haruhi sees men as potatoes still. Even if Haruhi likes Kyon, the reason Haruhi picked Kyon has already been established, and she liked “him” prior to their meeting on the first day of school. If this condition were the case, then every time she changed in class, she full well knows that Kyon is still there. So why the modesty now? I don’t buy the “Oh, she likes him now so she’s modest” argument… I think it’s just Kyoto making it up as they go along. Same goes for the person that Haruhi thinks she sees… she didn’t create that– Kyoto did to create an excuse for them to tumble off of the cliff.
Next, there’s the issue of Kyon’s sister who comically/tragically doesn’t call him “onii-san.” Actually, I’m not sure why Kyoto decided that she should come along… maybe despite Mikuru’s best efforts, the show wasn’t getting enough ratings from the loli-watching demographic (also explains the introduction of Lolilaika). There’s two things that Kyon’s sister does that does effect the plot– the first is that when she was hungry and looking for food, Kyon notices the missing steak… well, it’s not in the novel. Another hint for Kyoto to reinforce their murder mystery. Second, remember when Haruhi asks Yuki to “not open the door for anyone”? Imouto was inside the room when Haruhi closes the door… but Imouto was outside the room when Haruhi was begging Yuki to open up. A contradiction! The literalist in Yuki wouldn’t have allowed Imouto outside. Why was Imouto outside? To produce the scene with the hint about the food that didn’t exist in the novel. Basically, another Kyoto manufacture. Why did they have to manufacture this clue? Because they took out another. In the novel, Yuki was the one to touch the “body,” and Itsuki asks her, “What’s the body temperature?” and in typical Nagato fashion, she tells him to three significant digits. I think I like this original clue better because it uses the tendencies of the SOS Brigade– we know that Yuki will only do what is asked, nothing more, and that Itsuki is sharp enough to know this fact… hence why he didn’t ask, “Is he dead?” This clue was what originally got Kyon thinking that everything’s a hoax. This new clue feels cheap to the original intention.
Lastly, there’s the whole Phoenix Wright thing– at first, I couldn’t pin down exactly why I disliked the reference, but now, I understand why. Phoenix has the personality of Kyon. It’s Maya and/or Ema who has the personality of Haruhi. Phoenix is the one making backhanded comments under his breath concerning all the weirdos around him– same goes for Kyon, so it was weird to see Haruhi in that role. Though I’ll cut them some slack just because the vibes from Edgesworth and Itsuki feel… compatible. Maybe it’s the purple. Still, random parodies like this one doesn’t fit with the Kyoto standard… it’s something that I expect more out of Shaft.
Basically, with these changes, Kyoto added to and augmented Lone Island Syndrome from a quasi-philosophical discussion about Haruhi to a cheap murder mystery. The original story stands fine by itself, and the Phoenix Wright bit feels really tacked on and a bit unnatural– like Kyoto doing too much. (By comparison, no different than myself wondering, “Mmm… should I toss in a ‘Best Use of a Baseball Bat in 2006’ category?”. Sometimes, you just gotta know when to stop.) And maybe that’s why the arc didn’t feel as strong as the others… where Haruhi and her mystery is the star instead of Haruhi solving mysteries.
49 Responses to “melancholy of haruhi suzumiya 8 (2)”
Leave a Reply
Very interesting…. Yet more insentive for me to get off my butt and read the translation for the novels. 0o0
Itsuki carries Kyon to bed omg omg omg omg>>> Yuki was the one to touch the “body,†not Haruhi.
no one actually touched the body in the novel, well, cus common sense says you don’t mess around with no dead body~~
yuki just knows the temperature because she is yuki ^^;
this arc strayed furthest from the novel out of whole series, it seemed very out of place to those like me who read the novel before watch it. though have to admit it does have its merit though: ample cleavage, ample yuki cuteness, ample loli, and ample parody that original story wouldn’t allow (this is about 1 of the weakest story in the novel itself, in my opinion)
transfer a great novel into a great anime is always tough, and nearly impossible to be completely faithfal dispite the best effort, just because it’s different media. the most significant part is how yuki and mikuru is portraied. in the novel, it is pretty obvious yuki is given more attention than mikuru, and drawn a significantly larger fan base (though kyon himself disagrees) this is obviously due to the limitation of moe expression limited to words and a few insert pictures. by the same token, mikuru is alot more appreciated in the anime, due to the graphic effect of custume rape, and… bounce, and yuki is victimized by limited ability to portray inner feeling with motion picture
this is a rare epsiode that doesn’t lead or connected to other parts, it’s standalone nature allows some freedom for kyoani to pack in alot service, and that’s what they did, so i guess it works out all right
on a side note… any1 know when 涼宮ãƒãƒ«ãƒ’ã®å¥”èµ° is coming out?
was suppose to be end of december but that got pushed
I didn’t like how the novel spun the story at all. (Or perhaps Baka Tsuki’s translation is just really bad.) The story in the novel was just really really boring. We’ve already had (or in the case of the air dates of the episodes, will have) Kyon and Itsuki psuedo-philosophical discussions on the effects of Haruhi being God before and another would have made it feel redundant.
Plus, the very fact that they are discussing pseudo-philosophy is degrading, because 1. Nagaru and Kyoto writers aren’t philosophers and just by knowing this fact makes their “philosophical conclusions” feel oily, and 2. Haruhi isn’t Miyazaki’s moral campaign, it’s entertainment: Anime that take themselves too seriously usually don’t end well. So, Kyoto writers, in order to make Lone Island not boring, not oily, and not redundant, took a different turn.
The “mystery” however, did feel quite cheap, but the “mystery” in the book felt cheaper. I don’t remember the details but I do remember after reading it thinking “Wow, that was lame.”
Kyoto making Imouto tag along giving her more screen time is justified, I think, in that it gives her more character. It would be weird having her appear in 1 or 2 episodes and never again, making the viewer feel like she was completely random or accidentally forgotten.
>> I don’t buy the “Oh, she likes him now so she’s modest†argument…
You don’t have to. I believe the reason they tossed this scene in, honestly, is so you don’t have to think back so far to connect the dots after Asakura goes poof.
Go back and watch (or read) the scene where Haruhi starts changing before all the guys leave the class. See who it is that takes the initiative to shove’em all out the door? Picture the next day Haruhi’s getting changed for gym after that, and you can see why she’d grow some modesty.
It’s a lot like how they use the episode shuffling to remind you of Kyon’s secret picture stash when it’s going to come up again in the next couple episodes.
There are no contradictions with Imouto being outside of the room. Yuki explains it, “I am told not to let anyone in; there are no restrictions placed for people going out.”
…I watched the whole series again yesterday. This arc is still the weakest of them all (dreary and boring).
And they had to edit it, of course, because all the psychological talk comes in episode 13. ^^
I can’t wait for your post on Kanon 13/14. I need some comic relief after two heavy episodes…
So KyoAni traded the possible orange in the novel for Ituski instead staring at Kyon’s mole for a minute. A fair trade, but still kinda creepy.
Maybe that’s why Kyoto broke up the two episodes… They might have figured that putting two heavily altered episodes back-to-back would cause some outrage… Or they just didn’t want Itsuki to bag the Kyon O_o…
I am also waiting on that Kanon 13/14 post. I need my AoMM fix.
Don’t you just hate it when the anime version of a manga switches things around so they don’t work out anymore? >-
well, it’s not from a manga… manga to anime is eaiser than novel to anime, since it’s easier to transfer from frame to fps than from words alone
as much as i love SHnY novels, i do find alot short stories pretty weak
the next trip the took, in tsuruya-san’s cabin is not better than island one… the whole book 6, plus the dog thing in book 8 seems really random
though i do enjoy book 3 minus the detective stint, and most of book 5
anyway, long stories are the best! (1, 4, 7)
another side note…. i’m not enjoying the new season like i should ; ;
saint october only have 1 ep out, and it’s already a disaster
kyoshiro looks pretty good (kannaduki no miko 2) however they prob killed my fav char (short hair girl) already without anyone really notice it
the only other series that looks interesting is Venus versus Virus (had a killer trailer at least), this will be a slow season while we gear up for…. rakisuta
In the anime, Haruhi “thinks†that she sees someone, and the two tumble down and dry out in a cave…Kyoto had to toss in this scene to complete the change of principal players from Kyon and Itsuki to Kyon and Haruhi.
I think that was a fabulous decision on the part of KyoAni. It was almost as good as changing the the sex of the FMP twins from creepy yaoi wierdo’s to win yuri hotties.
Showing less Itsuki and more Haruhi fiddling around with her bra, shows both profound good taste and strong corporate courage.
If more corporations in this cold, cold world, showed that kind of compassion and generosity of heart to the service starved traditional males around the earth; then life truly would become better for everyone.
>>>Showing less Itsuki and more Haruhi fiddling around with her bra, shows both profound good taste and strong corporate courage.
And this is for the universal truth.
Thanks, I just rewatched half the series. I can’t really afford getting sucked back in right about now…
Watching back again the anime version, perhaps the “existence” of imouto-san could have been timely. Like soup, her entering the trip could have supported Mikuru’s cuteness(or moe…). In addition, perhaps KyoAni wanted to show us a variation of the novel version.
1. Beowulf Says:
January 7th, 2007 at 11:31:28 AM
I didn’t like how the novel spun the story at all. (Or perhaps Baka Tsuki’s translation is just really bad.) The story in the novel was just really really boring.
Ya maybe, the story phase is a bit slow.
One of the problems I have with the Lone Island Syndrome episodes is that they have to introduce these new characters to have the mystery with, and they’re much less interesting characters than the SOS-Dan or their usual offsiders.
I’m puzzled why Kyoto wasted two episodes on Lone Island Syndrome – they could have used the same episodes to do Bamboo Leaf Rhapsody and Endless Eight, both of which seem to be much more exciting and important stories. Maybe they thought they would leave them for the second season. LIS is the only story that Baka-Tsuki has translated that has a beach scene, so perhaps that’s why, but that doesn’t provide enough payoff for the rest.
There’s a pool scene in one of the other stories.
oh, those character will come back…. for some minor role (once already in anime, and a few additional time in other short stories such as winter trip) and eventually major role (book 7, and presumably book 9 if that will be a long story)
banboo leaf and endless august is closely tied with Vanishing, so it would be odd to just show them and leave them hanging instead of saving them for season 2
LIS is not a high point in the series, it’s just a service machine filler, one of the few that actually presenting yuki. it’s certainly enjoyable, but not necessarily the same way as other parts of the series
the alternatives i can think of is either cut this arc completely, we get a 12 ep season, or swap in yuki love story and we get 13. yuki love arc happens after vanishing, but not directly connected to it. they can either cut all reference to the vanishing event or, better yet, leave them in as a foreshadow of the season 2
The stories-within-a-story in book 8 are quite well written… especially Yuki’s. They’d be hard to translate to English, methinks.
really interested in written suzumiya…
can anyone help me out with where to look ?
Baka-Tsuki’s wiki translations of the books with scans can be found here:
http://project.baka-tsuki.net/.....iya_Haruhi
Well, they did spin it off in a way which would’ve played better in animation, IMO – if they’d done the straight-up mystery, they’d probably have had to cut out the underage drinking scene… and I don’t know how many fanboys would’ve liked the extra Itsuki/Kyon time. :D It’s less ‘deep’, but more entertaining, IMO, although the episode does have more homages than are probably necessary. The last comment from Itsuki indicating the scenario didn’t play out quite as they’d thought it would is, at least, a nod to the original, acknowledging the divergence.
>>Plus, the very fact that they are discussing pseudo-philosophy is degrading, because 1. Nagaru and Kyoto writers aren’t philosophers and just by knowing this fact makes their “philosophical conclusions†feel oily…
Degrading to who? Expecting characters exposed to such literally reality-shaking knowledge to not think about it just because they and their writers aren’t educated in the relevant subjects isn’t very realistic.
>>I didn’t like how the novel spun the story at all. (Or perhaps Baka Tsuki’s translation is just really bad.) The story in the novel was just really really boring.
I get that with a lot of translated Japanese novels. The writing feels bland and I don’t know if it’s a product of poor writing on the part of the original author or translators, or some problem of language more basic to Japanese-to-English translations.
This scene is also probably why she banned future alcohol consumption
^ I dunno. Haruhi strikes me as girl who would delight in forcing her male subdordinates into /Y/ situations. I’m stil lwaiting for the episode where she tries to increase the SOS Brigade fangirl demographic by filming Kyo and Itsuki in “Burokubaku Manutan”.
“YOUR FACE IS TOO CLOSE!!!”
“I wish I could quit you!”
>>>Degrading to who? Expecting characters exposed to such literally reality-shaking knowledge to not think about it just because they and their writers aren’t educated in the relevant subjects isn’t very realistic.
I used the word degrading wrong, replace it with “cheap”. As for the rest, I don’t understand what you’re saying at all.
>>>I get that with a lot of translated Japanese novels. The writing feels bland and I don’t know if it’s a product of poor writing on the part of the original author or translators, or some problem of language more basic to Japanese-to-English translations.
I think it’s the translators. We need a Robert Fitzgerald (The Odyssey) class Japanese translator.
The anime version never really match the manga version. Not too many that I know of anyway. :)
the novel you mean?
the manga only came out after anime (is based on anime rather than the original novel actually)
Not quite.
1) The Novel came first. Obviously.
2) A Manga adaptation came along, but it flunked. Big time.
3) Anime!
4) 2nd Manga adaptation. It did better this time.
Cheers.
Oh, and it pleases me that Mai’s lead over Nayuki has been steadily increasing since the poll started. It used to be a difference of 60+, but now it is 120+.
Interestingly, her percentage stake of 31% never really wavered. It was just that the other girls leeched off from Nayuki and Ayu, making the percentages for the other girls more balanced, but leaving Mai’s alone.
Cheers.
Any sane guys would have gone for wife-material instead. Too bad this place isn`t where those kind of people gather.
Ah, but the poll is about who is your favourite Kanon haremette, not who you would want to be your wife. ;)
Cheers.
I have a theory that all of the side-episodes for SHnY were meant to be imitations of anime genre. They have a sports episode (Boredom), Space battle (Day of Sagittarius), sailor-moon type magical girl (Episode 0) and so on. In that respect the first Lone Island episode is the manditory beach fanservice episode, and the second episode is the parody of mystery genre. In that case it makes sense for them to focus more on Haruhi and her mystery than on Kyon and Koizumi having yet another argument on philosophy.
Beowulf Says:
“>>Plus, the very fact that they are discussing pseudo-philosophy is degrading, because 1. Nagaru and Kyoto writers aren’t philosophers and just by knowing this fact makes their “philosophical conclusions†feel oily…”
How exactly does one become a philosopher? I guess taking classes in philosophy would have to qualify, or maybe reading books on philosophy. Of course, both of those are pretty much just discussing philosophy, aren’t they, which would make Kyon and Koizumi philosophers, and also Nagaru and the KyoAni writers by extension. The thing about being a “philosopher” is that it pretty much has to be a part-time job, doesn’t it, because you can’t get paid for it unless you’re a professor or author, and then you’re a professor or author. This isn’t ancient Greece anymore. How can you decry someone’s attempts at philosophy because they’re not a philosopher, when the only real requirement or being a philosopher is the discussion or knowlegde of philosophy? Isn’t it kind of like decrying our opinions on anime because we aren’t in the industry and don’t have a anime blog?
Maxtreme Says:
“‘YOUR FACE IS TOO CLOSE!!!’
‘I wish I could quit you!'”
Well, she has been saying she wants to make a second movie…
Of course I always got the impression she left Kyon out of the first movie intentionally, for the specific reason of not wanting to see him in any kinda of romantic involvement, even if it is “just a movie.”
just watched
Gakuen Utopia Manabi Straight!
omg….
平野綾 + å €æ±Ÿç”±è¡£ + 野ä¸è—
too bad horie yui goes with her Ayu voice, instead of superior Yoko , Siesta voice, or even Mizuho voice
Nonaka-san sounds cute like she always does
>>>This isn’t ancient Greece anymore. How can you decry someone’s attempts at philosophy because they’re not a philosopher, when the only real requirement or being a philosopher is the discussion or knowlegde of philosophy? Isn’t it kind of like decrying our opinions on anime because we aren’t in the industry and don’t have a anime blog?
I’m not saying they’re “wrong”, they could be “right” for all I care, my point is that Haruhi has set it self to be entertainment, not heavily philosophical, or philosophical through parody either (like Rosencrantz or Waiting for Godot) either. When we (or “I”, I should say) have that mindset, it makes me suspicious if the tone all of the sudden gets “scholarly” and makes me question: Do they know what they’re talking about or is this some psuedo-crap they’re feeding me (for example: http://internal.tbi.net/~max/zphysics.htm)? I don’t know about what the rest of you think, but perhaps it’s just that I’ve fought against way too much BS sitting in front of the computer (namely Creationism) to not be suspicious.
Moving on, when I actually did listen, I didn’t find Itsuki’s Haruhi is God philosophical speech to be compelling in any sense.
>>>just watched
Gakuen Utopia Manabi Straight!
Speak of the devil, I was just reading a “summary” of it.
http://www.lolitron.org/2007/0.....ght-ep-01/
I enjoyed Gakuen Utopia Manabi Straight immensely, any show that has Horie Yui singing right in the first episode is a win.
Oddly enough, according to Wikipedia, the OP & ED of the show is sang by Megumi Hayashibara, who was originally suppose to voice Horie Yui’s character… hrmm…
To Beowulf,
It might help if you read the Author’s Notes from the novels. ;) With regards to philosophy that is.
Cheers.
Skane, which one’s are you referring to?
Ok, I scrolled through some of them. He sounds like the scriptwriter from Sunrise.
thank you Beowulf ~
Xeifa
To Xeifa:Hayashibara Megumi DOES sing the ED of Gakuen Utopia Manabi Straight,listen yourself,and it`s written i the closing credits.
I know she does, I’m just wondering why she sang the both OP & ED when she’s not voicing a single character in the cast.
“Don’t open the door for anyone”
Imouto’s old enough to open doors on her own and the door is presumably locked only from the inside. There is no contradiction. You call Yuki a literalist yet you’re making her work under the “don’t allow the door to open” interpretation which was NOT what was literally said.
tl;dr, KyoAni should not stray from original content, because they might just pull a Gonzo on us. That would be… horrible.
so that’s why that two-episode on Lone Island feels weird when i watched it! (i read the novel first.and loved it) on the novel, kyon never believed in the first place that such a murder incident will take place just because haruhi wants it to happen. he knows haruhi can make it happen if she wants to. what he doesn’t believe is that haruhi would wish for someone to be actually murdered just because she wants to! he knows that haruhi is not so selfish to that point. also, the part where haruhi was overly worried about asahina collapsing and the part where kyon’s belief that haruhi never wished for that incident to occur wasn’t very much emphasized. that’s the kind of feel i missed in the anime. i think it emphasized that haruhi isn’t just some eccentric girl but cares a lot about her friends as well. and if i’m not mistaken, during this lone island thing, some sort of clue on nagato’s december 18 incident is already appearing (like how she listens mostly to no one but kyon during the open the door incident). i also think this is the opening where kyon started understanding haruhi and reading her emotional state better (beside itsuki who basically has the power to understand haruhi’s mental state at all times.) and came to trust on her deeper which develops in the later novels. and yeah, they left out one of my fave parts: “NO DRINKING TO ALL SOS BRIGADE EVER AGAIN” it felt haruhi has some sense! (oh, it’s too long already.sorry.) this is just my opinion though so please understand.sorry.but i like the whole anime as well especially the BAND Scene. It was better seen than read. :D